Graves, Wichael Michael H . Graves Antiques + Art 10 Albert lleadow Bar Harbor, ME 207-288-3830 Epp, Ronald From: Michael [mikegraves@adelphia.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 11:04 AM To: Epp. Ronald Subject: Re: Sweet Waters of Acadia Again I'll try to contact Tom and see what he has to add to the mystery. "The Islander" is the high school yearbook and wonder if that is where this interview was taken from. Tom'll know. I'll contact you as soon as I hear from him. Regards, Michael BTW: I was able to open the attachment you sent me so no need for a hard copy. Thanks. On Tuesday, September 21, 2004, at 04:53 PM, Epp, Ronald wrote: > > Michael, > > I've begun the process of trying to find out more about the Sweet > Waters of Acadia stone and thought that if you contacted Tom St. > Germain, you might ask him about the source of his reference on page > 102 of Trails of History where in note 2 he cites an interview with > Dorr from "The Islander" in 1983. This is troublesome since Dorr had > been dead for nearly 40 years (so then it must be a reprint) but I can > find in my comprehensive bibliographic resource (The Online Computer > Library Center) no serial publication titled "The Islander" for > anytimeframe other than the current Mount Desert Islander which began > publication just a few years ago. > > More about this in a day or two. > > Regards, > > Ron > > > Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. > Director of Shapiro Library > Southern New Hampshire University > Manchester, NH 03106 > > 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 > 603-645-9685 fax > > > > Original Message > From: Epp, Ronald > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:59 PM To: 'Michael' > Subject: RE: Sweet Waters of Acadia > > > Dear Michael, > > Elizabeth and I want to thank you for the time you spent with us on > Saturday, bushwacking into the Sieur de Monts woods. It certainly was > not in vain from our point of view. > > We had no sooner returned to Manchester than Elizabeth was > scrutinizing St. Germain's book and recovered the information that you > detail below. I don't think that the issue is settled because it is > clear to me that Mr. Dorr would not have permitted the disassociation > of the stone from its location at the spring itself. So why is it 1 > where it is? > > Your thesis about it being discarded makes sense at a practical level > where it not for the fact of how it is sited--it is at ground level > and aligned to the roadway as though it were the termination of a > pathway or adjacent to a walkway. I find it difficult to believe that > it would be in this state if it was tossed out carelessly either in > Mr. Dorr's day or after it. > > I've started to look closely at Margie Coffin Bropwn's scrupuously > detailed study, Historic Hiking Trails of Mount Desert Island, > completed in draft form in February 1999. It is still awaiting final > NPS approvals so don't look for iut in bookstores; however, the > Sawtelle Research Center does have a more recent draft that I'm sure > you can access. Do you know Brooke Childrey, the Curator? If not, I > can grease some of this process for you if you like. Anyway, Brown's > study may offer some insights into memorial stones of this sort. I > must also check various files of my own to see if I can get a handle > on this conundrum. I also recall reading about maps being developed > for the area in the early J.D. Rockefeller years (c. 1916-23) regarding > new roadways in the Sieur de Monts area and concerns about how these > would impact on the half dozen memorial trails that Dorr hand a hand > in constructing and maintaining--but to settle this I have to look > more deliberately at the Rockefeller Archive Center when I next visit > in early November. > > My suspicion is that you have made a discovery that may indeed be > unknown to ANP personnel. I would caution against bringing it to their > attention before we settle some of these chronological and locational > issues. My fear is that enlarging the informed group could endanger > the security of the engraved stone. However, Tom St. Germain or Jay > Saunders may have some useful insights if you want to pursue > this--that is, the very existence and historic location of the > engraved stone--with them. > > I'm sending as an attachment the promised Dorr Finding Aid. Let me > know if you can't open this and I'll send a hard copy. > > My next visit to MDI is uncertain but I would very much like to look > most closely at your rare books and maps and take you to dinner so > that we can continue this conversation and collaboration. > > Ron > > Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. > Director of Shapiro Library > Southern New Hampshire University > Manchester, NH 03106 > > 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 > 603-645-9685 fax > > > > Original Message > From: Michael [mailto:mikegraves@adelphia.net] > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 12:38 PM > To: Epp, Ronald > Subject: Sweet Waters of Acadia > > > Hello Ronald. I've searched for the reference to the bilingual stone > and found only one reference to the French version of the "Sweet > Waters of Acadia." It is obvious from the photo in GBD's own book > printed in 1942 that the spring is still in its original spot. In > fact, I think the gentleman at the talk was incorrect when he stated > the gazebo had burned. I think only the visitor center fell to that 2 > fate in 1947. If you reference page 102 in St. Germain's book "Trails > of History," he mentions a French poet who wrote about the voyages of > the Sieur de Monts and coins the phrase, "The Sweet Waters of Acadia" > in French. St. Germain claims this was Dorr's inspiration. In Dorr's > book, he states simply that a granite rock was inscribed in English. > I wouldn't describe the stone we sought today as a rock, however, the > memorial by the spring is and fits the surroundings much better than > the "discarded" marker. If you'll permit me, I'll toss around a > theory owing to its existence. Perhaps this stone was the original > design, but when placed at the spring it was deemed too formal looking > and not very much in harmony with the environment. A replacement was > ordered and the other stone ordered removed. Of course, if you are > hired to move such a heavy stone, why go through the effort to haul it > all the way back to Bar Harbor (or wherever) to dispose of it. It was > probably easiest to just have a horse drag it a little ways into the > woods and dump it, as they did with so many other objects. There are > remnants of road building machinery and encampments not far off the Park Loop Road. > Well, there you have it. Perhaps not as exciting as I thought, but > it's the little discoveries that keep the island enjoyable for me. > Let me know if you find anything more concrete. Regards, Michael > 3 Epp, Ronald From: Epp, Ronald Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 3:55 PM To: 'Michael' Subject: RE: Sweet Waters of Acadia Again Dear Michael, I received from the Rockefeller Archive Center today a 14 page inventory of the maps retained by J.D. Rockefeller Jr. relative to his carriage roads and Acadia National Park. It occurred to me that you might be interested in this inventory which may overlap and depart from the maps contained at park HQ; it may also serve as a point of reference for your own collections. If you would like me to mail you a copy, let me know. If something peaks your interest I could have it photocopied when I visit the RAC on November 5th. Have you been able to connect with Tom St. Germain? I suggested both of you to Ms. Alice Long, a member of the Acadia National Park Advisory Board, who is gathering together with me a committee (first meeting November 16th) to discuss how to celebrate the life of Mr. Dorr. Have you heard from her? I'll be coming to MDI on the 14th of November for a few days. Hope you are faring well. Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. Director of Shapiro Library Southern New Hampshire University Manchester, NH 03106 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 603-645-9685 fax Original Message From: Michael [mailto:mikegraves@adelphia.net) Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 11:04 AM To: Epp, Ronald Subject: Re: Sweet Waters of Acadia Again I'll try to contact Tom and see what he has to add to the mystery. "The Islander" is the high school yearbook and wonder if that is where this interview was taken from. Tom'll know. I'll contact you as soon as I hear from him. Regards, Michael BTW: I was able to open the attachment you sent me so no need for a hard copy. Thanks. On Tuesday, September 21, 2004, at 04:53 PM, Epp, Ronald wrote: > > Michael, > > I've begun the process of trying to find out more about the Sweet > Waters of Acadia stone and thought that if you contacted Tom St. > Germain, you might ask him about the source of his reference on page > 102 of Trails of History where in note 2 he cites an interview with > Dorr from "The Islander" in 1983. This is troublesome since Dorr had > been dead for nearly 40 years (so then it must be a reprint) but I can > find in my comprehensive bibliographic resource (The Online Computer > Library Center) no serial publication titled "The Islander" for > anytimeframe other than the current Mount Desert Islander which began > publication just a few years ago. > > More about this in a day or two. 1 > Regards, > Ron > > > Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. > Director of Shapiro Library > Southern New Hampshire University > Manchester, NH 03106 > > 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 > 603-645-9685 fax > > > > Original Message > From: Epp, Ronald > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:59 PM > To: 'Michael > Subject: RE: Sweet Waters of Acadia > > > Dear Michael, > > Elizabeth and I want to thank you for the time you spent with us on > Saturday, bushwacking into the Sieur de Monts woods. It certainly was > not in vain from our point of view. > > We had no sooner returned to Manchester than Elizabeth was > scrutinizing St. Germain's book and recovered the information that you > detail below. I don't think that the issue is settled because it is > clear to me that Mr. Dorr would not have permitted the disassociation > of the stone from its location at the spring itself. So why is it > where it is? > > Your thesis about it being discarded makes sense at a practical level > where it not for the fact of how it is sited--it is at ground level > and aligned to the roadway as though it were the termination of a > pathway or adjacent to a walkway. I find it difficult to believe that > it would be in this state if it was tossed out carelessly either in > Mr. Dorr's day or after it. > > I've started to look closely at Margie Coffin Bropwn's scrupuously > detailed study, Historic Hiking Trails of Mount Desert Island, > completed in draft form in February 1999. It is still awaiting final > NPS approvals so don't look for iut in bookstores; however, the > Sawtelle Research Center does have a more recent draft that I'm sure > you can access. Do you know Brooke Childrey, the Curator? If not, I > can grease some of this process for you if you like. Anyway, Brown's > study may offer some insights into memorial stones of this sort. I > must also check various files of my own to see if I can get a handle > on this conundrum. I also recall reading about maps being developed > for the area in the early J.D Rockefeller years (c. 1916-23) regarding > new roadways in the Sieur de Monts area and concerns about how these > would impact on the half dozen memorial trails that Dorr hand a hand > in constructing and maintaining--but to settle this I have to look > more deliberately at the Rockefeller Archive Center when I next visit > in early November. > > My suspicion is that you have made a discovery that may indeed be > unknown to ANP personnel. I would caution against bringing it to their > attention before we settle some of these chronological and locational > issues. My fear is that enlarging the informed group could endanger > the security of the engraved stone. However, Tom St. Germain or Jay > Saunders may have some useful insights if you want to pursue > this--that is, the very existence and historic location of the 2 > engraved stone--with them. > I'm sending as an attachment the promised Dorr Finding Aid. Let me > know if you can't open this and I'll send a hard copy. > > My next visit to MDI is uncertain but I would very much like to look > most closely at your rare books and maps and take you to dinner so > that we can continue this conversation and collaboration. > > Ron > > Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. > Director of Shapiro Library > Southern New Hampshire University > Manchester, NH 03106 > > 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 > 603-645-9685 fax > > > > -Original Message > From: Michael [mailto:mikegraves@adelphia.net] > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 12:38 PM > To: Epp, Ronald > Subject: Sweet Waters of Acadia > > > Hello Ronald. I've searched for the reference to the bilingual stone > and found only one reference to the French version of the "Sweet > Waters of Acadia." It is obvious from the photo in GBD's own book > printed in 1942 that the spring is still in its original spot. In > fact, I think the gentleman at the talk was incorrect when he stated > the gazebo had burned. I think only the visitor center fell to that > fate in 1947. If you reference page 102 in St. Germain's book "Trails > of History, he mentions a French poet who wrote about the voyages of > the Sieur de Monts and coins the phrase, "The Sweet Waters of Acadia" > in French. St. Germain claims this was Dorr's inspiration. In Dorr's > book, he states simply that a granite rock was inscribed in English. > I wouldn't describe the stone we sought today as a rock, however, the > memorial by the spring is and fits the surroundings much better than > the "discarded" marker. If you'll permit me, I'll toss around a > theory owing to its existence. Perhaps this stone was the original > design, but when placed at the spring it was deemed too formal looking > and not very much in harmony with the environment. A replacement was > ordered and the other stone ordered removed. of course, if you are > hired to move such a heavy stone, why go through the effort to haul it > all the way back to Bar Harbor (or wherever) to dispose of it. It was > probably easiest to just have a horse drag it a little ways into the > woods and dump it, as they did with so many other objects. There are > remnants of road building machinery and encampments not far off the Park Loop Road. > Well, there you have it. Perhaps not as exciting as I thought, but > it's the little discoveries that keep the island enjoyable for me. > Let me know if you find anything more concrete. Regards, Michael > 3 Epp, Ronald From: Epp, Ronald Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:00 PM To: 'Michael' Subject: RE: Sweet Waters of Acadia Again Dear Michael, I've located the passages in "The Story of Acadia" where Dorr refers to the Spring its commemorative stone, and the rationale for the naming itself. However, no indication there of any other location for the memorial stone that we found. However, I've got a large scale topo map of the Sieur de Monts region dated 1914 that I secured from the ANP Chief of Engineering several months ago that identifies several memorial paths radiating out from the Wild Gardens. I need to analyze this more closely and then compare it on site. Are you acquainted with a local woman named Alice Long? She is a member of the Acadia National Park Advisory Board who called me last week to see whether I'd like to work with her and others in fashioning at the park a celebration of Mr. Dorr. She has edited three books on the vital records of Hancock County and seems to have a serious interest in this yet ill defined project. She's asked me for the names of others who might be interested in meeting in late November at park headquarters to discuss options. I thought of you and wondered if you might be interested in this ambiguous project which could be centered around the 125th anniversary of the completion of Old Farm. By the way, I found that I have a copy of the Islander article, a reprinting of portions of "The Story of Acadia." Have a fine weekend. Ron Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. Director of Shapiro Library Southern New Hampshire University Manchester, NH 03106 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 603-645-9685 fax Original Message From: Michael [mailto:mikegraves@adelphia.net Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 11:04 AM To: Epp, Ronald Subject: Re: Sweet Waters of Acadia Again I'll try to contact Tom and see what he has to add to the mystery. "The Islander" is the high school yearbook and wonder if that is where this interview was taken from. Tom'll know. I'll contact you as soon as I hear from him. Regards, Michael BTW: I was able to open the attachment you sent me SO no need for a hard copy. Thanks. On Tuesday, September 21, 2004, at 04:53 PM, Epp, Ronald wrote: > > Michael, > 1 > I've begun the process of trying to find out more about the Sweet > Waters of Acadia stone and thought that if you contacted Tom St. > Germain, you might ask him about the source of his reference on page > 102 of Trails of History where in note 2 he cites an interview with > Dorr from "The Islander" in 1983. This is troublesome since Dorr had > been dead for nearly 40 years (so then it must be a reprint) but I can > find in my comprehensive bibliographic resource (The Online Computer > Library Center) no serial publication titled "The Islander" for > anytimeframe other than the current Mount Desert Islander which began > publication just a few years ago. > > More about this in a day or two. > > Regards, > > Ron > > > Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. > Director of Shapiro Library > Southern New Hampshire University > Manchester, NH 03106 > > 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 > 603-645-9685 fax > > > > Original Message > From: Epp, Ronald > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:59 PM > To: 'Michael > Subject: RE: Sweet Waters of Acadia > > > Dear Michael, > > Elizabeth and I want to thank you for the time you spent with us on > Saturday, bushwacking into the Sieur de Monts woods. It certainly was > not in vain from our point of view. > > We had no sooner returned to Manchester than Elizabeth was > scrutinizing St. Germain's book and recovered the information that you > detail below. I don't think that the issue is settled because it is > clear to me that Mr. Dorr would not have permitted the disassociation > of the stone from its location at the spring itself. So why is it > where it is? > > Your thesis about it being discarded makes sense at a practical level > where it not for the fact of how it is sited--it is at ground level > and aligned to the roadway as though it were the termination of a > pathway or adjacent to a walkway. I find it difficult to believe that > it would be in this state if it was tossed out carelessly either in > Mr. Dorr's day or after it. > > I've started to look closely at Margie Coffin Bropwn's scrupuously > detailed study, Historic Hiking Trails of Mount Desert Island, > completed in draft form in February 1999. It is still awaiting final > NPS approvals SO don't look for iut in bookstores; however, the > Sawtelle Research Center does have a more recent draft that I'm sure > you can access. Do you know Brooke Childrey, the Curator? If not, I > can grease some of this process for you if you like. Anyway, Brown's > study may offer some insights into memorial stones of this sort. I > must also check various files of my own to see if I can get a handle > on this conundrum. I also recall reading about maps being developed > for the area in the early J.D. Rockefeller years (c. 1916-23) regarding > new roadways in the Sieur de Monts area and concerns about how these 2 > would impact on the half dozen memorial trails that Dorr hand a hand > in constructing and maintaining--bu to settle this I have to look > more deliberately at the Rockefeller Archive Center when I next visit > in early November. > > My suspicion is that you have made a discovery that may indeed be > unknown to ANP personnel. I would caution against bringing it to their > attention before we settle some of these chronological and locational > issues. My fear is that enlarging the informed group could endanger > the security of the engraved stone. However, Tom St. Germain or Jay > Saunders may have some useful insights if you want to pursue > this--that is, the very existence and historic location of the > engraved stone--with them. > > I'm sending as an attachment the promised Dorr Finding Aid. Let me > know if you can't open this and I'll send a hard copy. > > My next visit to MDI is uncertain but I would very much like to look > most closely at your rare books and maps and take you to dinner so > that we can continue this conversation and collaboration. > > Ron > > Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. > Director of Shapiro Library > Southern New Hampshire University > Manchester, NH 03106 > > 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 > 603-645-9685 fax > > > > Original Message > From: Michael [mailto:mikegraves@adelphia.net] > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 12:38 PM > To: Epp, Ronald > Subject: Sweet Waters of Acadia > > > Hello Ronald. I've searched for the reference to the bilingual stone > and found only one reference to the French version of the "Sweet > Waters of Acadia. It is obvious from the photo in GBD's own book > printed in 1942 that the spring is still in its original spot. In > fact, I think the gentleman at the talk was incorrect when he stated > the gazebo had burned. I think only the visitor center fell to that > fate in 1947. If you reference page 102 in St. Germain's book "Trails > of History, he mentions a French poet who wrote about the voyages of > the Sieur de Monts and coins the phrase, "The Sweet Waters of Acadia" > in French. St. Germain claims this was Dorr's inspiration. In Dorr's > book, he states simply that a granite rock was inscribed in English. > I wouldn't describe the stone we sought today as a rock, however, the > memorial by the spring is and fits the surroundings much better than > the "discarded" marker. If you'll permit me, I'll toss around a > theory owing to its existence. Perhaps this stone was the original > design, but when placed at the spring it was deemed too formal looking > and not very much in harmony with the environment. A replacement was > ordered and the other stone ordered removed. Of course, if you are > hired to move such a heavy stone, why go through the effort to haul it > all the way back to Bar Harbor (or wherever) to dispose of it. It was > probably easiest to just have a horse drag it a little ways into the > woods and dump it, as they did with so many other objects. There are > remnants of road building machinery and encampments not far off the Park Loop Road. > Well, there you have it. Perhaps not as exciting as I thought, but > it's the little discoveries that keep the island enjoyable for me. > Let me know if you find anything more concrete. Regards, Michael > 3 Epp, Ronald From: Epp, Ronald Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:59 PM To: 'Michael' Subject: RE:Sweet Waters of Acadia W DORRPapers0704.d OC (118 KB) Dear Michael, Elizabeth and I want to thank you for the time you spent with us on Saturday, bushwacking into the Sieur de Monts woods. It certainly was not in vain from our point of view. We had no sooner returned to Manchester than Elizabeth was scrutinizing St. Germain's book and recovered the information that you detail below. I don't think that the issue is settled because it is clear to me that Mr. Dorr would not have permitted the disassociation of the stone from its location at the spring itself. So why is it where it is? Your thesis about it being discarded makes sense at a practical level where it not for the fact of how it is sited--it is at ground level and aligned to the roadway as though it were the termination of a pathway or adjacent to a walkway. I find it difficult to believe that it would be in this state if it was tossed out carelessly either in Mr. Dorr's day or after it. I've started to look closely at Margie Coffin Bropwn's scrupuously detailed study, Historic Hiking Trails of Mount Desert Island, completed in draft form in February 1999. It is still awaiting final NPS approvals so don't look for iut in bookstores; however, the Sawtelle Research Center does have a more recent draft that I'm sure you can access. Do you know Brooke Childrey, the Curator? If not, I can grease some of this process for you if you like. Anyway, Brown's study may offer some insights into memorial stones of this sort. I must also check various files of my own to see if I can get a handle on this conundrum. I also recall reading about maps being developed for the area in the early J.D. Rockefeller years (c. 1916-23) regarding new roadways in the Sieur de Monts area and concerns about how these would impact on the half dozen memorial trails that Dorr hand a hand in constructing and maintaining- but to settle this I have to look more deliberately at the Rockefeller Archive Center when I next visit in early November. My suspicion is that you have made a discovery that may indeed be unknown to ANP personnel. I would caution against bringing it to their attention before we settle some of these chronological and locational issues. My fear is that enlarging the informed group could endanger the security of the engraved stone. However, Tom St. Germain or Jay Saunders may have some useful insights if you want to pursue this--that is, the very existence and historic location of the engraved stone--with them. I'm sending as an attachment the promised Dorr Finding Aid. Let me know if you can't open this and I'll send a hard copy. My next visit to MDI is uncertain but I would very much like to look most closely at your rare books and maps and take you to dinner so that we can continue this conversation and collaboration. Ron Ronald H. Epp, Ph.D. Director of Shapiro Library Southern New Hampshire University Manchester, NH 03106 603-668-2211, ext. 2164 603-645-9685 fax 1 Original Message From: Michael [mailto:mikegraves@adelphia.net] Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 12:38 PM To: Epp, Ronald Subject: Sweet Waters of Acadia Hello Ronald. I've searched for the reference to the bilingual stone and found only one reference to the French version of the "Sweet Waters of Acadia." It is obvious from the photo in GBD's own book printed in 1942 that the spring is still in its original spot. In fact, I think the gentleman at the talk was incorrect when he stated the gazebo had burned. I think only the visitor center fell to that fate in 1947. If you reference page 102 in St. Germain's book "Trails of History," he mentions a French poet who wrote about the voyages of the Sieur de Monts and coins the phrase, "The Sweet Waters of Acadia" in French. St. Germain claims this was Dorr's inspiration. In Dorr's book, he states simply that a granite rock was inscribed in English. I wouldn't describe the stone we sought today as a rock, however, the memorial by the spring is and fits the surroundings much better than the "discarded" marker. If you' permit me, I'll toss around a theory owing to its existence. Perhaps this stone was the original design, but when placed at the spring it was deemed too formal looking and not very much in harmony with the environment. A replacement was ordered and the other stone ordered removed. Of course, if you are hired to move such a heavy stone, why go through the effort to haul it all the way back to Bar Harbor (or wherever) to dispose of it. It was probably easiest to just have a horse drag it a little ways into the woods and dump it, as they did with so many other objects. There are remnants of road building machinery and encampments not far off the Park Loop Road. Well, there you have it. Perhaps not as exciting as I thought, but it's the little discoveries that keep the island enjoyable for me. Let me know if you find anything more concrete. Regards, Michael 2